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Locked Topic Master Server "Patch" or "Mod" (Read 6703 times)
Menta(S-Elite)
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Master Server "Patch" or "Mod"
May 10th, 2015 at 4:11pm
 
First of I m sorry for opening a new thread but I really do feel that other people should ve the opportunity to discuss the MSP issue with TBBC and AvPUnknown now where the mainthread (Patch test) got locked by KindKenny.

Hello fellow AvP2ler
I m a longtime AvP2 player since the game was released, played it daily for years and years. (only survivor,evac,UMP-Servers)
Anyways It has been brought to my attention that there is a dispute between TBBC and AvPUnknown concerning the content of the Master Server Patch.

Okay here is what I think:

I was very happy to see earlier MSP versions started to integrate new maps (though only a few to this date) and thought adding new content makes it feel much more refreshing and enjoyble AND NO ONE IS LEFT OUT COZ HE/SHE DONT HAVE THE MAP etc!

Now I really dont see why this shouldnt be embrassed more.
The mainconcern might be the file size but guys we dont live in the 90s anymore with 56k modems... even countrys like Africa have at least a conncetion of 3Mbps.
So even when the MSP is above 300mb big it only takes 20 minutes of loading it with the lowest speed worldwide.
see: http://www.netindex.com/download/allcountries/

Next, the thing with new visuals,sounds and stuff.
Again I dont see much of an issue here... I dont think TBBC implemented flying unicorns etc he seems legit.
Though the changes should stick to the AVP universe, hands down!
For me it would also be cool to implement the AJL mod or similiar. That would boost gameplay for sure and everyone has the option to play it or stick to vanilla servers!

In any case I m happy to see a still active AvP 2 Community after all the years so I m confident no matter what...

AvP 2 will never die!
  
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Re: Master Server "Patch" or "Mod"
Reply #1 - May 10th, 2015 at 4:31pm
 
Menta(S-Elite) wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 4:11pm:
First of I m sorry for opening a new thread but I really do feel that other people should ve the opportunity to discuss the MSP issue with TBBC and AvPUnknown now where the mainthread (Patch test) got locked by KindKenny.


He burned his bridge fella, evidence speaks for it self.

It's impossible to work with anyone like that who simply cannot corporate (in a team) - and starts throwing false accusations around is very childish. - We are done with him.

Menta(S-Elite) wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 4:11pm:
I was very happy to see earlier MSP versions started to integrate new maps (though only a few to this date) and thought adding new content makes it feel much more refreshing and enjoyble AND NO ONE IS LEFT OUT COZ HE/SHE DONT HAVE THE MAP etc!


True, to some extent, guy was biased though, people need to remember it's a patch with a 'carefully selected few' custom maps added by me kingkenny and the original developers back in the day.

if they want more maps? download UMP1/2 and soon 3.

Menta(S-Elite) wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 4:11pm:
Now I really dont see why this shouldnt be embrassed more.
The mainconcern might be the file size but guys we dont live in the 90s anymore with 56k modems... even countrys like Africa have at least a conncetion of 3Mbps.
So even when the MSP is above 300mb big it only takes 20 minutes of loading it with the lowest speed worldwide.
see: http://www.netindex.com/download/allcountries/


It wasn't just about the file sizes.. it was the fact adding unnecessary shite to the 'MSP' thus changing it into a mod etc...  or being biased by adding a bunch of maps by one author ?

And when we question him, we are 'ungrateful shits'  ..??  -_-

It caused problems, and the msp should be 35/40MB as it has been for a long time....



Menta(S-Elite) wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 4:11pm:
Next, the thing with new visuals,sounds and stuff.
Again I dont see much of an issue here... I dont think TBBC implemented flying unicorns etc he seems legit.
Though the changes should stick to the AVP universe, hands down!


Changing anything else caused a shit storm, the guy dropped the ball, take a good look at the thread that will stay up as evidence to the community.

Like i said, if he wants to make a mod go for it, just stay away from the patch.

Menta(S-Elite) wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 4:11pm:
First of I m sorry for opening a new thread but I really do feel that other people should ve the opportunity to discuss the MSP issue with TBBC and AvPUnknown now where the mainthread (Patch test) got locked by KindKenny.


The main thread to have all discussions on the 'MSP' is here.

http://www.avpunknown.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1396948677/0#0


No where else.

Its hard to explain, but i would say this is about principal and that a certain individual is out of line... to disregard 7 years of history and decides to make a mod the debate is over he can make his 'MOD' all he wants.  (and everyone is disappointed by his disgusting behavior)


Menta(S-Elite) wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 4:11pm:
In any case I m happy to see a still active AvP 2 Community after all the years so I m confident no matter what...

AvP 2 will never die!


Yes!!"
« Last Edit: May 10th, 2015 at 5:11pm by x-M-x »  
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Menta(S-Elite)
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Re: Master Server "Patch" or "Mod"
Reply #2 - May 10th, 2015 at 5:29pm
 
Quote:
impossible to work with anyone like that who simply cannot corporate (in a team) - and starts throwing false accusations around is very childish.


Yeah for large parts it was a off-topic discussion... but I dont think it was nice discrediting his work as: " adding a lot of 'shite' to the msp."
Can you tell me in detail what visuals,sounds etc it was.
I mean I ve no problem replacing the crappy taunts with awesome new one or having way more characters to chose in multiplayer menue.

Quote:
Like i said, if he wants to make a mod go for it, just stay away from the patch.


Well I know what you mean but I think those kinda seperations "patches = only the must haves" , "mods" = optional content upgrade"  can only be made  when the game has a huge playerbase and is a new-release.
There it would seem disrespectful nagging many people with mandatory content upgrades... but I think AvP2 is another story.
I mean your view is if people wanna play mods or custom maps they should install it yourself and wait ages on a mod server to finally have 1 more people who got the mod too.
I really have an issue with that logic!
If it is Call of Duty with million playerbase (means: thousands of mod players, means: healthy active mod-sessions) I would agree but regarding AvP2 only has maybe  50 active players, mandatory content upgrades would be a great way to unite vanilla and mod players a like.
  
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Re: Master Server "Patch" or "Mod"
Reply #3 - May 10th, 2015 at 5:44pm
 
Menta(S-Elite) wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 5:29pm:
Can you tell me in detail what visuals,sounds etc it was.


Details are in his 'mod'  like i said the debate is over, plus the guy wasn't listening anyway, i think it speaks for it self as you can see.

I've had several emails and group discussions about him adding things in the 'mod' that is not needed.

I've never discredited his work at all.... he did an awesome job, shame the way he acted.

but him calling us ungrateful shits and hell bent on attacking me and my staff for no reason? he doesn't have a leg to stand on, the proof is in that thread which will be evidence for everyone to see.

You know the old saying? (don't bite the hand that feeds you) .....


Menta(S-Elite) wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 5:29pm:
I mean I ve no problem replacing the crappy taunts with awesome new one or having way more characters to chose in multiplayer menue.


Then that's a 'mod' isn't it? - changing original gameplay will mean it is no longer AVP2.

if you want massive changes in gameplay, then AJL is the mod for you  Wink

Menta(S-Elite) wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 5:29pm:
Well I know what you mean but I think those kinda seperations "patches = only the must haves" , "mods" = optional content upgrade"  can only be made  when the game has a huge playerbase and is a new-release.
There it would seem disrespectful nagging many people with mandatory content upgrades... but I think AvP2 is another story.
I mean your view is if people wanna play mods or custom maps they should install it yourself and wait ages on a mod server to finally have 1 more people who got the mod too.
I really have an issue with that logic!
If it is Call of Duty with million playerbase (means: thousands of mod players, means: healthy active mod-sessions) I would agree but regarding AvP2 only has maybe  50 active players, mandatory content upgrades would be a great way to unite vanilla and mod players a like.


I, get your point. this community is small, (its a bit damaged now though because of him)

AVP2 has always and will always be like that. if you want a map pack a mod a skin a skin pack a sound pack, get it your self we always make custom stuff and release them for the community.

The MSP has a small carefully selected maps and that's how far it goes, (if its in the right hands of course) as i have said kingkenny have said and im sure will several others agree on, the discussions with him are very much over, He burned his bridge, or should i say (it exploded)

Remember, our goal is to keep it VERY MUCH ALIVE AND ACCESSIBLE ONLINE TO EVERYONE - and we will continue this process.  Wink



Welcome btw,
« Last Edit: May 10th, 2015 at 6:43pm by x-M-x »  
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Re: Master Server "Patch" or "Mod"
Reply #4 - May 10th, 2015 at 10:30pm
 
Menta(S-Elite) wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 4:11pm:
First of I m sorry for opening a new thread but I really do feel that other people should ve the opportunity to discuss the MSP issue with TBBC and AvPUnknown now where the mainthread (Patch test) got locked by KindKenny.

Hello fellow AvP2ler
I m a longtime AvP2 player since the game was released, played it daily for years and years. (only survivor,evac,UMP-Servers)
Anyways It has been brought to my attention that there is a dispute between TBBC and AvPUnknown concerning the content of the Master Server Patch.

Okay here is what I think:

I was very happy to see earlier MSP versions started to integrate new maps (though only a few to this date) and thought adding new content makes it feel much more refreshing and enjoyble AND NO ONE IS LEFT OUT COZ HE/SHE DONT HAVE THE MAP etc!

Now I really dont see why this shouldnt be embrassed more.
The mainconcern might be the file size but guys we dont live in the 90s anymore with 56k modems... even countrys like Africa have at least a conncetion of 3Mbps.
So even when the MSP is above 300mb big it only takes 20 minutes of loading it with the lowest speed worldwide.
see: http://www.netindex.com/download/allcountries/

Next, the thing with new visuals,sounds and stuff.
Again I dont see much of an issue here... I dont think TBBC implemented flying unicorns etc he seems legit.
Though the changes should stick to the AVP universe, hands down!
For me it would also be cool to implement the AJL mod or similiar. That would boost gameplay for sure and everyone has the option to play it or stick to vanilla servers!


Hi there.

I really don't want to talk about this again because I've said everything that needed to be said, but I will explain to you because you asked nicely about it.

First of all, adding AJL mod would kill of Singleplayer and it is a complete mod. If you implement AJL mod, default or vanilla AvP2 is gone. Also there isn't a feature toggle on/off mods that easily. Replacing anything that is default AvP2 in terms of attributes, textures, spritetextures, worldtextures, sprites, models, audio, etc would be a mod. The MSP stands for "Master Server Patch" not "Master Server Mod." Get the difference? That's why I coined the current MSP as the "TBBC Mod" as it strays away from being a patch.

As for the custom textures, sounds, models. In this thread: http://www.avpunknown.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1426112297 I made two posts asking about are the custom maps going to include custom content. I suggested that they don't be added for a variety of reasons (messy rez folders, custom files overwriting others in other maps, larger file size, etc). I thought it would be a better idea for dats only to go into the msp. You can put in about double the amount of maps as maps that use custom content and get the same file size. Also UMP3 sounds like a better option for those style of maps that use more custom stuff. However, I'd also be fine with cramming a UMP3 into the MSP but certain people don't want that (including x-M-x). It's a bit unrealistic to add it all together and having to reupload some massive file for each update. Personally, I'd be fine with it.

My question was never answered in that thread. No one even acknowledged it. I raised it in the thread that I recently locked and got called names for it.......

I accused TBBC of playing favoritism to JP for adding mostly just his maps and ignoring everyone elses as well. It's heavily biased in my opinion to add all of his maps (3) just because they are "new" and ignoring 14 years of maps made by other authors. I made the suggestion to keep like 1 of his maps, then add 1 of say WsCandy, 1 of Hevoc, 1 of Deathmancer, 1 of Windebieste, 1 of etc.

For anyone that is curious to the validity of my claims, you simply need to open up the rez file and look at it for yourself. Then again, just by testing the rez you would know as well.

Oh and for anyone reading this, lets please not turn this thread into another fight. It won't do any good. Discussion is fine, but no flame wars please. This forum is really lenient with letting people post whatever as long as its not spam. I wont bother engaging in another fight though. I'm over it.
  

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Re: Master Server "Patch" or "Mod"
Reply #5 - May 11th, 2015 at 6:27pm
 
KingKenny wrote on May 10th, 2015 at 10:30pm:
I accused TBBC of playing favoritism to JP


TBBC wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 4:40pm:
I want to accuse x-M-x of playing favoritism to himself and KingKenny.

kenny stop accusing TBBC
and you TBBC Turn the omelet so is useless.
do both laughter and solve this problem.
It would be more constructive for all.
« Last Edit: May 11th, 2015 at 6:32pm by Lucifer »  

"Your olden prophet saw his sad estate when he wrote:" How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How are you cast down, you who you dared to confuse the worlds! "
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Re: Master Server "Patch" or "Mod"
Reply #6 - May 11th, 2015 at 8:38pm
 
Quote:
x-M-x wrote:  Details are in his 'mod'  like i said the debate is over....


Quote:
x-M-x wrote: You know the old saying? (don't bite the hand that feeds you)


I m sorry but this sounds very authoritarian to me... maybe we should all take a deep breath and focus on the substance matter: the MSP!

@KingKenny

Thank you for your detailed explanation...its appreciated.
Regarding the AJL thing... yeah a toggle on/off thing would be neat but hard to implement.

Quote:
KingKenny wrote:  "Master Server Patch" not "Master Server Mod." Get the difference? That's why I coined the current MSP as the "TBBC Mod" as it strays away from being a patch.


As stated before I know that making a "mod" out of a patch usally isnt the way to go.... but avp2 is different... securing the diversity people play avp2 cannot be archieved with people manually have to look for maps on there own!

Quote:
x_m_x wrote: AVP2 has always and will always be like that. if you want a map pack a mod a skin a skin pack a sound pack, get it your self we always make custom stuff and release them for the community.


Maybe youre right but it doesnt have to be that way anymore... again we e not in the darkages anymore where we carefully have to count every kilobyte etc ^^
Convenience trumps filesize and "patch" classifications  imo
  
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Re: Master Server "Patch" or "Mod"
Reply #7 - May 11th, 2015 at 8:56pm
 
Menta(S-Elite) wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:38pm:
I m sorry but this sounds very authoritarian to me... maybe we should all take a deep breath and focus on the substance matter: the MSP!


My bad bro.


Menta(S-Elite) wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:38pm:
Maybe youre right but it doesnt have to be that way anymore... again we e not in the darkages anymore where we carefully have to count every kilobyte etc ^^
Convenience trumps filesize and "patch" classifications  imo


it simply cant work for mods and skins man.

maps yeah sure why not.


  
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Re: Master Server "Patch" or "Mod"
Reply #8 - May 11th, 2015 at 10:11pm
 
Lots of 'crap' removed from this thread the TBBC argument is done and dusted.

« Last Edit: May 11th, 2015 at 10:31pm by x-M-x »  
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Re: Master Server "Patch" or "Mod"
Reply #9 - May 11th, 2015 at 10:16pm
 
Menta(S-Elite) wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 8:38pm:
Quote:
KingKenny wrote:  "Master Server Patch" not "Master Server Mod." Get the difference? That's why I coined the current MSP as the "TBBC Mod" as it strays away from being a patch.


As stated before I know that making a "mod" out of a patch usally isnt the way to go.... but avp2 is different... securing the diversity people play avp2 cannot be archieved with people manually have to look for maps on there own!


I don't call it a mod because of the maps added. It's due to other changes that were made.

x-M-x wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 10:11pm:
Lots of 'crap' removed form this thread the TBBC argument is done and dusted.

Water under the brigde.



Hmm ok. I've been done with it.
« Last Edit: May 11th, 2015 at 10:20pm by KingKenny »  

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Re: Master Server "Patch" or "Mod"
Reply #10 - May 11th, 2015 at 10:37pm
 
Cmon guys...deleting all TBBC posts inside this thread is childish and inhibits free flow of informnation!

Quote:
x-M-x wrote:  it simply cant work for mods and skins man.

maps yeah sure why not.


Yeah dont get me wrong I m focusing on the maps issue primarily because you said some posts before that the MSP shouldnt be over 40mb. Which I think is unneseccary anymore as state above.

  
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Re: Master Server "Patch" or "Mod"
Reply #11 - May 11th, 2015 at 10:44pm
 
Menta(S-Elite) wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 10:37pm:
Cmon guys...deleting all TBBC posts inside this thread is childish and inhibits free flow of informnation!



??? mine and his are all gone, sick of the arguments. plus we finally agreed 'the debate is over'

good luck to his site n mod,

not childish at all.

Menta(S-Elite) wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 10:37pm:
Yeah dont get me wrong I m focusing on the maps issue primarily because you said some posts before that the MSP shouldnt be over 40mb. Which I think is unneseccary anymore as state above.


Sooner or later it will be a map pack.... lol
« Last Edit: May 11th, 2015 at 10:45pm by x-M-x »  
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Re: Master Server "Patch" or "Mod"
Reply #12 - May 11th, 2015 at 11:12pm
 
Menta(S-Elite) wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 10:37pm:
Cmon guys...deleting all TBBC posts inside this thread is childish and inhibits free flow of informnation!

Quote:
x-M-x wrote:  it simply cant work for mods and skins man.

maps yeah sure why not.


Yeah dont get me wrong I m focusing on the maps issue primarily because you said some posts before that the MSP shouldnt be over 40mb. Which I think is unneseccary anymore as state above.



No I'm fine with the msp being 500mb. I've even said I'd be fine with it having UMP3 included.

But if one was going to select only a handful of maps, I suggested a mix of authors focusing on dats only.

Say the msp could be 300 mb max. Would you rather have?

A) MSP - With 15 maps (including those with custom textures, sounds, models, etc)

B) MSP - With 30 maps (no maps with custom content included)

I would vote B.
  

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Re: Master Server "Patch" or "Mod"
Reply #13 - May 11th, 2015 at 11:37pm
 
B) MSP - With 30 maps (no maps with custom content included)

THIS


  
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Re: Master Server "Patch" or "Mod"
Reply #14 - May 12th, 2015 at 1:02am
 
« Last Edit: May 12th, 2015 at 1:05am by KingKenny »  
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