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Lucifer
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Alien Vs Predator 2 3D virtualization
Feb 18th, 2015 at 3:05pm
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I quote Máximo
inside nvidea forum
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/470024/alien-versus-predator-2-3d/

Máximo question is:
I've heard that my favorite game (Alien versus predator 2) has excellent results in 3D but I can't make it play with the 3D vision. Does anybody know what to do ?

My question is:
it would be possible to create a virtual machine using
an old 7900 nvidea driver and run winxp?
its possible?

for now i have found this about Hardware-accelerated remote 3D WINDOWS desktops using VirtualGL and VirtualBox

https://blogs.oracle.com/vizsun/entry/hardware_accelerated_remote_3d_windows




« Last Edit: Feb 21st, 2015 at 7:15am by Lucifer »  


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Re: Alien Versus Predator 2 3D
Reply #1 - Feb 18th, 2015 at 8:30pm
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I dont think it would work.

Lucifer wrote on Feb 18th, 2015 at 3:05pm:
a virtual machine using an old 7900 nvidea driver

The VM has its own Graphics adapter & Graphics drivers and won't support Nvidia's 3D Vision since these drivers aren't by Nvidia anymore.
In a VM you wouldn't notice if your GPU and GPU driver is by Nvidia or AMD because all you see is the Oracle or VMware graphics adapter in the VM.

Lucifer wrote on Feb 18th, 2015 at 3:05pm:
it would be possible to create a virtual machine
i have found this about Hardware-accelerated remote 3D

It is possible and its working great with VMware.
Virtual Box doesn't support the 3D emulation out of the box.
(3d emulation = possibility to play 3D games, not Nvidia's 3D Vision)
The performance overhead depends a bit but is around 30% to 10%.

If you want to use Oracle Virtual Box, you'd have to set something up to use 3d graphics but you'll have it for free.
If you want to test it via VMware: The VMware player is free and has less overhead.
I could send you the VM for testing but its 16.4 Gb - maybe half the size if i delete some stuff and compress it but still large.


You'd need a Host system with Windows XP, AvP2 and the old Nvidia drivers to get 3D vision working as well as the hardware like the glasses and a compatible monitor.
  
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Re: Alien Versus Predator 2 3D
Reply #2 - Feb 18th, 2015 at 8:58pm
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Not worth the hassle.

  
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Re: Alien Versus Predator 2 3D
Reply #3 - Feb 19th, 2015 at 1:02pm
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heres a short video for you, lucifer: http://youtu.be/N1ybTKPbdvE
i hope my spoken english is understandable Tongue

Lucifer wrote on Feb 19th, 2015 at 7:23am:
Nice Geran thanks for dedicating your time. i try immediately
[...]
you are right mr x emulate the game is perhaps a misconception.
and a waste of time but I think I have found the point.
I tried to do tests on virtualbox to emulate AVP2.
all the old games seem to work avpc including

Emulating it in a vm is only good if you want to stay compatible with the drivers - if it works in one vm, it will work on all hosts.
but you can't expect that it supports all features since its hard to keep up with all the new hardware stuff.
you can emulate directx support so you can play games but all that stereoscopic stuff is pretty new. (==> Video)

Lucifer wrote on Feb 19th, 2015 at 7:23am:
The various components of DirectX are available to the programmer as COM objects corresponding to the specifications.
The components included in DirectX 9.0c are:
*snip*

DirectX is just a Library of functions so the game can easily access the hardware so the game just contains the game logic, not the hardware stuff.
And if they improve some functions or fix a bug, all games using DirectX are fixed and it takes less time to develop an engine.

Lucifer wrote on Feb 19th, 2015 at 7:23am:
to make things even more complicated, I also believe that there is a problem or a conflict between NET Framework 1.0 or 1.1 and old driver (ati/nvidia) i allude to service pack 2 for windows XP .

If you install a fresh WinXP and the Nvidia or AMD drivers, the needed Framework comes with the redistributables.
Just install the fitting driver - you either need Nvidia or AMD depending which GPU you have.

Lucifer wrote on Feb 19th, 2015 at 7:23am:
probably its a driver problem analogic vs usb mause.

Its all covered by your drivers / DirectX input. They don't make any difference except ghosting.
The only problem you might get with USB is that ancient PC's can't access it during boot.

Lucifer wrote on Feb 19th, 2015 at 7:23am:
hatched by multinational talk about microsoft vs sony , rebellion vs monolith , ati vs nvidia.

They weren't 100% compatible but worked.
Now days you can run an Nvidia GPU on an AMD board and vice versa without any problems.
Theres a lot stuff that can lead to problems since everyone cooked its own soup (IE5 - IE 8 vs every other browser) but there are strict interface standards by now.

And Service Packs are just compilations of bugfixes by the manufacturer.
They released them to fix a ton of bugs in like Windows so you dont have to install the 5000 Updates .

x-M-x wrote on Feb 18th, 2015 at 8:58pm:
Not worth the hassle.

True.
If you still use AvP2 with WinXP, its nice to have such a feature.
« Last Edit: Feb 19th, 2015 at 2:06pm by geran »  
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Re: Alien Versus Predator 2 3D
Reply #4 - Feb 19th, 2015 at 5:32pm
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probably emulate the entire operating system is not the right way especially in terms of performance.
I wonder you can use pach patch of rebellion.
I allude to the stereoscopic 3d pach for alien vs predator 3.
http://3dvision-blog.com/1563-aliens-vs-predator-recommendations-and-fixes-for-3...
This patch works a bit like a crack that goes to overwrite exactly on avp3 exe
Normally you can not start avp3 original exe without open steam
but I noticed that this pach addition to force to open stereoscopic driver acts like a crack no cd.
I wonder would it be possible to copy or duplicate this process and apply it over AVP2 exe?
it would be possible to create a process of pre installed.
a bit as with the installation process for avp classic avp3 2000 and 2010?
« Last Edit: Feb 19th, 2015 at 5:50pm by Lucifer »  


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Re: Alien Versus Predator 2 3D
Reply #5 - Feb 19th, 2015 at 5:49pm
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Lucifer wrote on Feb 19th, 2015 at 5:32pm:
probably emulate the entire operating system is not the right way especially in terms of performance.

The only thing it needs is ~1Gb Ram including AvP2.
Windows itself doesn't need much CPU power if it isn't in use (like 1-5%) and even if, you could emulate a dual core.
And since AvP2 doesn't need lots of resources, it'll run fine even on low end machines.
I posted it in a previous thread: The VM is even faster than running on the bare system since it doesn't bite with the gfx settings.
Lucifer wrote on Feb 19th, 2015 at 5:32pm:
I wonder would it be possible to copy or duplicate this process and apply it over AVP2 exe?

Nope.
Different game, different engine.
  
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Re: Alien Versus Predator 2/3 3D stereoscopic
Reply #6 - Feb 20th, 2015 at 6:04pm
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geran wrote on Feb 19th, 2015 at 5:49pm:
The only thing it needs is ~1Gb Ram including AvP2.
Windows itself doesn't need much CPU power if it isn't in use (like 1-5%) and even if, you could emulate a dual core.
And since AvP2 doesn't need lots of resources, it'll run fine even on low end machines.
I posted it in a previous thread: The VM is even faster than running on the bare system since it doesn't bite with the gfx settings.

I see great potential in this project, especially for the new operating system could be a solution. I'm sure that users who have Windows 8 will be happy to be able to play full screen without having to be forced into windoned mode.
in addition could be a solution for all users to provide the opportunity to host their own dedicated server without having problems with the strange timer fast.

geran wrote on Feb 19th, 2015 at 5:49pm:
Nope.
Different game, different engine.


well if this is not possible
it is possible to reverse
there are programs that can emulate graphics cards
for example
http://www.3dcenter.org/

i have used in past for emulate an old game not compatible in windows 7 unfortunatly this program not support avp2
is it possible blind this program and force avp2 to use a virtual 7900 card nvidia?
if is not there is another way for emulate a old grafic card?
or use NVIDIA 3D Vision Driver BETA
here a little collection of old beta drivers
http://downloads.guru3d.com/Videocards---S...rivers_c22.html
probably is more easy buy a old pc for play avp2 stereoscopic but...
it would be nice if you could play with 3d stereoscopic AVP2 even on new computers.


« Last Edit: Feb 21st, 2015 at 7:31am by Lucifer »  


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Re: Alien Vs Predator 2 3D virtualization
Reply #7 - Feb 24th, 2015 at 5:48pm
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exist a lots of program more lite emulation of avp2  98 and Windows NT / 2000 / XP
for exemple
http://www.dosbox.com/
DOSBox is a DOS emulator that's the SDL-library which makes DOSBox a multi platform. DOSBox is compatible with Windows, BeOS, Linux, MacOS X DOSBox emulates CPU: 286/386 realmode / protected mode, Directory FileSystem / XMS / EMS, graphics cards Tandy / Hercules / CGA / EGA / VGA / VESA, SoundBlaster / Gravis ultra Sound card for excellent sound compatibility with older games.

or

http://bochs.sourceforge.net/
Bochs is a virtual machine Open Source that creates an emulation of x86 and AMD64. Supports the emulation processor (even protected), memory, disks, display, Ethernet, BIOS and common hardware peripherals of IBM compatible. There are many operating systems that can run with this emulator: DOS, some versions of Windows, Linux and BSD. Bochs can be used to run old games with operating systems no longer current. Operating systems that can emulate are: Linux, DOS, Windows 95/98 and Windows NT / 2000 / XP

what is the better and lite?
for solve incompatibily problem insde new operative system?
know other emulation program?
« Last Edit: Feb 24th, 2015 at 8:11pm by Lucifer »  


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Re: Alien Vs Predator 2 3D virtualization
Reply #8 - Feb 25th, 2015 at 2:07pm
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AVP2 works on windows 95 all the way upto Windows 10...

I once ran a server from avp2 via windows 95... crazy.

As for 3D? it's difficult to get that to work on a 15 year old game.

  
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Re: Alien Vs Predator 2 3D virtualization
Reply #9 - Feb 25th, 2015 at 7:50pm
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its crazy a win 95 or 98 lite in dos box for emulate avp2 for win 7 and 8/10 (for client only) probably its more easy the geran idea of emulation of win xp (for servers and client) and yes probably yes im crazy XD but i only try to find the way for run this game more lite and compatible for all so


about 3d stereoscopic
i have find a interesting video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4SbDkyLyBI
same period another big porgect talking about a differnt engigne .
you may notice that when this technician activates the 3D stereoscopic in cry engigne also menu windows goes stereoscopic emulation. I was wondering if there could be a way to replicate this.
probably there is a difference betwin active 3d nvidia and passive 3d sansung but..

in nvidia forum Posted 07/05/2010 02:32 PM max says

Let me see if I understood this mess.



1 - Nvidia reported AVP2 as a supported game for 3D Vision. I'm sure of it, I'm not dreaming because I can see the game reported in the list of Nvidia control panel !

2 - You gentlemen, tell me that this game is not supported for 3D vision / It works with the old red/blue 3D glasses, which is not 3D Vision. Right?

3 - The one and only conclusion possible: Nvidia has lied? Isn't it against the law? This is serious in my country: in cases like that people are oblied to refund the cash to the costumers...

about compatibility Posted 07/06/2010 02:37 PM
max say

Well, AVP2 rocks on Vista 32, but doesn't rock on W7. Considering the fact that 3D Vision drivers don't work very well on Vista I've tried the following solution: I log in on W7 ( I have a multi-boot sistem: XP/VISTA/W7/Linux64), and play AVP2 from Vista's partition. AVP2 works perfectly like that on W7, but I have to turn 3D vision off first, otherwise the game doesn't load...It's pretty much the same thing on Vista system: you might play the game, but you have to turn 3D vision first; can you keep contact with some engineer from Nvidia to solve this mistery?

i quote him and i have same question contact with some engineer from Nvidia to solve this mistery?
« Last Edit: Feb 26th, 2015 at 12:52pm by Lucifer »  


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Re: Alien Vs Predator 2 3D virtualization
Reply #10 - Feb 27th, 2015 at 6:16am
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Any progress on this ?

  


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Re: Alien Vs Predator 2 3D virtualization
Reply #11 - Feb 27th, 2015 at 6:57am
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[AvP2]Seal wrote on Feb 27th, 2015 at 6:16am:
Any progress on this ?

geran probably its busy for work so avp2 in virtual emulation work in full screen for new so in full direct x 9.c but emulation of a virtual machine win xp sp3 its a bit heavy but plausible 
a emulation in dos box of win 98 probably its more light plausible expecially for client but i have no idea if net work.
i want make more test in a virtual emulation of a machine in windows 2000 / xp 32/ xp 64 whidout service pack and i want use game direct x 8 beta I have the impression that the new service pack of microsoft  eraser or do not make full use the old direct x 8 beta.
I also have discovered that may have to do some old controller drivers joistic allude to the commands of the pad of the old x box would conflict with analog controls
mause including.
teory? microsoft vs sony inside direct x 9 c  some driver japan driver missing .
this explain problem of mause performance expecially in win 8
« Last Edit: Feb 27th, 2015 at 7:08am by Lucifer »  


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Re: Alien Vs Predator 2 3D virtualization
Reply #12 - Feb 27th, 2015 at 7:08am
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I Remember when 'Monolith' planned a PS2 version of AvP2.... if only they released it!!!

« Last Edit: Feb 27th, 2015 at 7:08am by x-M-x »  
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Re: Alien Vs Predator 2 3D virtualization
Reply #13 - Feb 27th, 2015 at 7:15am
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x-M-x wrote on Feb 27th, 2015 at 7:08am:
I Remember when 'Monolith' planned a PS2 version of AvP2.... if only they released it!!!

Realy ?This would explain the reason for many things

i need only 1 little computer XD
a computer engineer and a team of programmers to solve this mystery.
joke apart about 3d stereoscopic i have a teory
old scool 3d 1 generation removed from the market because a health hazard could cause epilepsy (not plausible for date)

passive 2 generation (plausible for date)

active 3 generation (active vs passive incompatibility)


« Last Edit: Mar 1st, 2015 at 10:38am by Lucifer »  


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